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By Sarah Jaffe. An especially dark and sexual vibe runs through the latest album by his band Grinderman. Billboard: Does the release of the new album help establish Grinderman as more than a side project?

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Nick Cave: We made two albums, which is more than some fully fledged bands. Sclavunos: It was pretty natural because we had been doing this Nick Cave solo thing, which was basically Nick and Warren Ellis going out and doing smaller arrangements of Bad Seeds songs, and from that it started taking on its own momentum. Marty Casey and I ed and gave the whole operation a bit of balls. It got to a point where it started upsetting audiences in Germany.

Nick cave & co. open the debate on love, sex, sexism

They had come for an intimate evening with Nick Cave and they got their he ripped off. And Grinderman was eventually what that outlet became.

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Billboard: Carrie Brownstein, on her NPR blog, wrote that the rise of bearded indie rockers was a harbinger of a lack of danger in rock music. Where do those notions of masculinity and danger fit for you? But within that sexuality it has all the bubbling neuroses and terror and violence that run through the he of men of our age and distinction.

Sclavunos: Some people see it in a much simpler way. They look at a surface aspect of it. And had a huge positive response, that someone actually wrote a song like that. Because most rock music is about the opposite. Sensitive either. Billboard: Are some people put off by that?

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Sclavunos: Is there something really that offensive about it? There is a directness. We talk about sex openly. Or not getting sex. Billboard: This album seems a little less sexually aggressive than the first Grinderman release, and the women seemed to get, if not revenge, a little more of the spotlight.

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Because we actually are addressing certain subjects about masculinity, about what it is to be a man in this day and age when men have largely been emasculated. And no one else is. Or very few other people. Or misogynistic.

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There are lots of things going on in that song. Does that make it instantly misogynist? Billboard: In another interview, you mentioned that you were told not to write songs about God or love on the first Grinderman record.

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Did you give yourself any limitations like that this time? Cave: Warren suggested I should avoid those subjects, meaning that I should go somewhere else from what people would expect from a Bad Seeds record. Sclavunos: It was a good starting point. But I think mostly for me, I write violent lyrics. Even the most beautiful love lyrics that I write are always for me seen through a prism of violence. Sclavunos: Or even a foreboding of violence. I remember going to a psychiatrist for a while and she used to have this picture of this little girl on her wall, who was sitting in a chair.

It just ends up the point of view that you look at things.

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Cave: That particular song to me is about the kind of origins of extremism, terrorism. Of envy and isolation. Mickey Mouse represents the weaker, feminine, comic side of us, and the big bad wolf is the masculine side. I rang her up and asked her if she would do this Grinderman song, and she has done this incredible job of it.

Music News Updated. By Sarah Jaffe 8 Min Read.

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Women made most of the oldest-known cave art paintings, suggests a new analysis of ancient handprints.